Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to bcfcforum.co.uk. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Bridge to tottenham - Davis to us?; The Guardian
Topic Started: Jul 29 2005, 12:22 PM (906 Views)
fishblues
Kenny Burns
[ *  *  *  * ]
pa132435no2
Jul 29 2005, 07:18 PM
fishblues
Jul 29 2005, 06:54 PM


Do you really beleive that we cannot afford £5M. If and I say "IF" we were after Appiah the board and SB decided he was not worth that sort of money as did Boro and the other English clubs that the PRESS had linked with the player.

The board are running a business, they know a lot more about business than you or I and I think trying to grow a business too quickly and putting yourself in major debt to do so is a 1 way road to disaster, I dont want to end up in the Championship with huge debts like Leeds, Coventry, Shef Wed, Bradford to name but a few.

Show some patience, as long as we get Pandi and a quality midfield player before the deadline I will be happy, but I dont think we should be made to pay over the odds to foreign clubs who realise the premership is awash with money.

Nope, I don't believe it, and that's what makes it worse.

I don't believe it's because he's not good enough for us, because anyone who sees Appiah beat a whole team, curl a 30 yard shot into the net, then go make some important tackles, would realise you won't get a player like him for less than 5.5m, unless you've got managerial skills of clubs like Parma, Lecce, Arsenal.

Bruce doesn't have them managerial skills. He sold on a 20 goal a season England international forward for nothing, in his own youth squad. Wenger signs e.g Vieira for 3m, Bruce wants Michael Brown for 4. Anelka signs for 500k, Robbie Blake signs for 800k. Cisse signs for 1.5m, Bouba Diop signs for about the same for Fulham.

I don't want Bruce out before you mention it. His man managing is the best in the PL, probably the best in world football. He's the only manager who can sign alcoholics, alleged racists etc and not have a bad reputation.

Spending hundreds of millions put Leeds in debt, 5.5m wouldn't get us relegated, when we've got about 10m.

Please dont bring AJ into this argument, were you moaning 3 seasons ago when we swapped him for Mozza, I doubt it, hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

Did I say he was not good enough for the Blues, I said the "IF" the board and SB were interested they thought the fee was too high, sorry I do not know you, you may be the best undiscovered scout in the football world, but for now I will rely on the professionals.

"Wenger signs e.g Vieira for 3m, Bruce wants Michael Brown for 4. Anelka signs for 500k, Robbie Blake signs for 800k. Cisse signs for 1.5m, Bouba Diop signs for about the same for Fulham"

With your skills of hindsight you could manage Real Madrid.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pa132435no2
Frank Worthington
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
fishblues
Jul 29 2005, 10:37 PM
Please dont bring AJ into this argument, were you moaning 3 seasons ago when we swapped him for Mozza, I doubt it, hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

Did I say he was not good enough for the Blues, I said the "IF" the board and SB were interested they thought the fee was too high, sorry I do not know you, you may be the best undiscovered scout in the football world, but for now I will rely on the professionals.

"Wenger signs e.g Vieira for 3m, Bruce wants Michael Brown for 4. Anelka signs for 500k, Robbie Blake signs for 800k. Cisse signs for 1.5m, Bouba Diop signs for about the same for Fulham"

With your skills of hindsight you could manage Real Madrid.

Bless you. You think recognising a player's skills is about hindsight. That's just an industry excuse.

Why not bring AJ into it? We had a 20 goal a season, England international forward in a youth team, who was given away, Bruce didn't realise it. Appiah's not worth it, Bruce just ignored his skill.

AJ, Vieira, Anelka. Ljungberg, Vieira, Anelka, do you think that's hindsight, or a manager who clearly recognises skillful players when he sees them?

Bruce knew who Bouba Diop and Cahill were, their managers were offering them to everyone. He didn't recognise their ability.

True, sometimes it IS hindsight, but sometimes it's ignorance.

Every year, there's a Wright-Phillips, Riquelme, Bouba-Diop, Cahill, Bojinov. Bruce seems to look at second teams at big clubs, and not all round the world like those smaller teams do.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
fishblues
Kenny Burns
[ *  *  *  * ]
pa132435no2
Jul 30 2005, 12:00 AM
fishblues
Jul 29 2005, 10:37 PM
Please dont bring AJ into this argument, were you moaning 3 seasons ago when we swapped him for Mozza, I doubt it, hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

Did I say he was not good enough for the Blues, I said the "IF" the board and SB were interested they thought the fee was too high, sorry I do not know you, you may be the best undiscovered scout in the football world, but for now I will rely on the professionals.

"Wenger signs e.g Vieira for 3m, Bruce wants Michael Brown for 4. Anelka signs for 500k, Robbie Blake signs for 800k. Cisse signs for 1.5m, Bouba Diop signs for about the same for Fulham"

With your skills of hindsight you could manage Real Madrid.

Bless you. You think recognising a player's skills is about hindsight. That's just an industry excuse.

Why not bring AJ into it? We had a 20 goal a season, England international forward in a youth team, who was given away, Bruce didn't realise it. Appiah's not worth it, Bruce just ignored his skill.

AJ, Vieira, Anelka. Ljungberg, Vieira, Anelka, do you think that's hindsight, or a manager who clearly recognises skillful players when he sees them?

Bruce knew who Bouba Diop and Cahill were, their managers were offering them to everyone. He didn't recognise their ability.

True, sometimes it IS hindsight, but sometimes it's ignorance.

Every year, there's a Wright-Phillips, Riquelme, Bouba-Diop, Cahill, Bojinov. Bruce seems to look at second teams at big clubs, and not all round the world like those smaller teams do.



So are you telling me you were moaning 3 years ago when we swapped AJ for Mozza?

"Vieira, Anelka. Ljungberg, Vieira, Anelka"

ok I am withyou, if we can get Arsen to leave Arsenal and manage the Blues then its time for SB to go.

"Bruce knew who Bouba Diop and Cahill were, their managers were offering them to everyone. He didn't recognise their ability."

If they were offered to everbody it isnt just SB that missed out.

Every transfer is gamble some come off some dont, for every player from aboard or the chapionship that makes it another 1 will fail.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bluediver
Member Avatar
Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
pa132435no2
Jul 30 2005, 12:00 AM
Bless you. You think recognising a player's skills is about hindsight. That's just an industry excuse.

Why not bring AJ into it? We had a 20 goal a season, England international forward in a youth team, who was given away, Bruce didn't realise it. Appiah's not worth it, Bruce just ignored his skill.

AJ, Vieira, Anelka. Ljungberg, Vieira, Anelka, do you think that's hindsight, or a manager who clearly recognises skillful players when he sees them?

Bruce knew who Bouba Diop and Cahill were, their managers were offering them to everyone. He didn't recognise their ability.

True, sometimes it IS hindsight, but sometimes it's ignorance.

Every year, there's a Wright-Phillips, Riquelme, Bouba-Diop, Cahill, Bojinov. Bruce seems to look at second teams at big clubs, and not all round the world like those smaller teams do.

I agree. Actually I think there are two areas of Bruce's management that need improving. The first, as you quite rightly say, is recognising talent. He lets more than his fair share of opportunities slip through his fingers through either ignorance or stubborness. Not sure which.

The second is that when he does find talent, he doesnt recognise the best way to use it. And that is all about his tactical ineptitude.

Yes, he is worth his weight in gold for his player management skills - but is that enough for a Premiership club allegedly aspiring to european football? Hopefuly the back room staff recently brought in will help make a difference. Time will tell.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DANY
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
One area our club needs to improve on is our overseas scouting network.

Do we even have one??

We cannot maintain the 'buy british' policy because the top british players are unnatainable. Premiership based players are also usually very overpriced.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tobedeleted
Unregistered

DANY
Jul 30 2005, 11:19 AM
One area our club needs to improve on is our overseas scouting network.

Do we even have one??


we must have one; naft, coly, dugarry, figroll to mention a few. been linked to several overseas players; pandiani, dacourt, van bommel to name a few more - conclusion? yes we do have a scouting system...i think its more a question of being sure a player can adapt to the prem, which is physically far and away the hardest league...
;)
Quote Post Goto Top
 
nattyf
Martin Grainger
[ *  *  * ]
Any truth in the Davies from Spurs rumour? Also any clue about Bernard?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DANY
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
proccy
Jul 30 2005, 12:19 PM

we must have one; naft, coly, dugarry, figroll to mention a few. been linked to several overseas players; pandiani, dacourt, van bommel to name a few more - conclusion? yes we do have a scouting system...i think its more a question of being sure a player can adapt to the prem, which is physically far and away the hardest league...
;)

Is it just the case though that these players agents have touted them around which is why we signed them? I think that was the case with Pandiani and Figroll.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tobedeleted
Unregistered

DANY
Jul 30 2005, 12:58 PM
proccy
Jul 30 2005, 12:19 PM

we must have one; naft, coly, dugarry, figroll to mention a few. been linked to several overseas players; pandiani, dacourt, van bommel to name a few more - conclusion? yes we do have a scouting system...i think its more a question of being sure a player can adapt to the prem, which is physically far and away the hardest league...
;)

Is it just the case though that these players agents have touted them around which is why we signed them? I think that was the case with Pandiani and Figroll.

the case with pandiani was he was about to sign for fiorentina, and when it went t1ts up sb's "contacts" alerted him, not the agent iirc.....
Quote Post Goto Top
 
charliedontsurf
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Bless you. You think recognising a player's skills is about hindsight. That's just an industry excuse.

Why not bring AJ into it? We had a 20 goal a season, England international forward in a youth team, who was given away, Bruce didn't realise it. Appiah's not worth it, Bruce just ignored his skill.

AJ, Vieira, Anelka. Ljungberg, Vieira, Anelka, do you think that's hindsight, or a manager who clearly recognises skillful players when he sees them?

Bruce knew who Bouba Diop and Cahill were, their managers were offering them to everyone. He didn't recognise their ability.

True, sometimes it IS hindsight, but sometimes it's ignorance.

Every year, there's a Wright-Phillips, Riquelme, Bouba-Diop, Cahill, Bojinov. Bruce seems to look at second teams at big clubs, and not all round the world like those smaller teams do.


For every player Bruce has 'missed' there has also been an Upson or a Forsell, so Bruce is no worse than many in that department. I also note that you brought up Morrison; a few seasons ago he was THE hottest property om Div 1.

I agree with some of your points; I for one would have liked him to go for Appiah. Howevere, it IS too easy to suggest thta every good player who has gone to another club should have been snapped up by our manager. Why didn't Fergie go for Viera? Why did Wenger not go for Cech? Plus, I can guarantee that if Bruce went for someone like Sidwell, he would get flack - 'oh we should be looking at Ravievieri the Ecuadorean who plays in Spain.' etc Bruce's but british policy may be short-sighted, but so is an attempt to fill the team with the latest Latin wonderkids.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pa132435no2
Frank Worthington
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
charliedontsurf
Jul 30 2005, 03:33 PM
Quote:
 
Bless you. You think recognising a player's skills is about hindsight. That's just an industry excuse.

Why not bring AJ into it? We had a 20 goal a season, England international forward in a youth team, who was given away, Bruce didn't realise it. Appiah's not worth it, Bruce just ignored his skill.

AJ, Vieira, Anelka. Ljungberg, Vieira, Anelka, do you think that's hindsight, or a manager who clearly recognises skillful players when he sees them?

Bruce knew who Bouba Diop and Cahill were, their managers were offering them to everyone. He didn't recognise their ability.

True, sometimes it IS hindsight, but sometimes it's ignorance.

Every year, there's a Wright-Phillips, Riquelme, Bouba-Diop, Cahill, Bojinov. Bruce seems to look at second teams at big clubs, and not all round the world like those smaller teams do.


For every player Bruce has 'missed' there has also been an Upson or a Forsell, so Bruce is no worse than many in that department. I also note that you brought up Morrison; a few seasons ago he was THE hottest property om Div 1.

I agree with some of your points; I for one would have liked him to go for Appiah. Howevere, it IS too easy to suggest thta every good player who has gone to another club should have been snapped up by our manager. Why didn't Fergie go for Viera? Why did Wenger not go for Cech? Plus, I can guarantee that if Bruce went for someone like Sidwell, he would get flack - 'oh we should be looking at Ravievieri the Ecuadorean who plays in Spain.' etc Bruce's but british policy may be short-sighted, but so is an attempt to fill the team with the latest Latin wonderkids.

Upson and Forssell aren't players like Bojinov or Senderos, who were found at teams like Servette.

Players like Upson and Forssell are the second teams of big teams, it doesn't take managerial skills to find them.

People don't moan every time Wenger signs e.g Lupoli, Owusu-Abeyie, Clichy, Senderos, Aliadiere, Pennant, because they know he sees skill where other people don't. It doesn't matter if we'd moan about unknown players, if they play like Bouba Diop.

I don't care what players other teams miss, that's other managers.

And Wenger didn'y buy Cech because he cost 7m.

It doesn't take 50m to get a world class player. Rooney didn't cost Everton, Wright-Phillips didn't cost Man City, Gerrard didn't cost Liverpool....AJ didn't cost Birmingham City anything either
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
charliedontsurf
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
People don't moan every time Wenger signs e.g Lupoli, Owusu-Abeyie, Clichy, Senderos, Aliadiere, Pennant, because they know he sees skill where other people don't. It doesn't matter if we'd moan about unknown players, if they play like Bouba Diop.

I don't care what players other teams miss, that's other managers.

And Wenger didn'y buy Cech because he cost 7m.

It doesn't take 50m to get a world class player. Rooney didn't cost Everton, Wright-Phillips didn't cost Man City, Gerrard didn't cost Liverpool....AJ didn't cost Birmingham City anything either


PA... by and large I agree with you: but my point is that Brucie can't seem to win. If he goes after younger players who may be cheaper, then people will complain about the board not splashing cash. Conversely, genuine class players are few and far between and probably have better options than us.

For instance, how do we know that Kilkenny and Hall will not go on to become class players. When I have seen both (admittedly only about three occassions each) they have looked very promising indeed - on another level to players such as Carter. Therefore, Bruce may be doing the right thing by waiting to blood them, but he is still coming under fire for not splasing the cash (and i must admit, I am impatient for a real quality midfielder.)

Quote:
 
Players like Upson and Forssell are the second teams of big teams, it doesn't take managerial skills to find them.


Think you are being harsh on Bruce here, though. After all - look at players like Wallwork who were reserve regulars. It still takes skill to pick out a Forse, otherwise people would have been in there before Steve.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Learn More · Register Now
« Previous Topic · Blues Chat · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Forum Design by Hirsty.